Major Shakeup at Lucasfilm and SoR's Future Plans

Mark: 00:00:15

Hello there and welcome to Spark of Rebellion, the Star wars show that brings you everything from a galaxy far, far away. And today we're coming at you with some changes.

We've been thinking about it for a while, so we are going to change the format and the structure of the show, which will be quite exciting, actually. I think we feel. We feel pretty good about this.

So guys and I are going to talk you through this in a little while and we're also going to talk about something that really randomly came up after our conversation last week where we talked about maybe the need for a restructure over at Disney when it comes to Star Wars. And lo and behold, a couple of days later, actually we get an announcement. So we're going to spend that time today talking about that.

My name is Mark, the co host with, you know, just. Just average amount of most really. And probably a lot of people would say the fun of this podcast.

And my co host, of course, I'll bring in a second will be known as the looks. And probably the logic really is like C3PO for my little tenuous R2D2 it is, Mr. Gazelle. All right, I'm gonna call you C3P.

Garry: 00:01:27

Don't do it. Don't do it.

Mark: 00:01:28

C3P. Bro.

Garry: 00:01:30

Bro. That'll do.

Mark: 00:01:31

Hambrolo.

Garry: 00:01:32

Hello. I thought you were gonna go quite rude there.

Mark: 00:01:35

No, no.

Garry: 00:01:36

Usual Mostist co host duty. Rude.

Mark: 00:01:41

No, no, no, no. You got recognized yesterday, didn't you?

Garry: 00:01:44

I did get recognized. I love when it happens. Makes you feel like all the time.

Mark: 00:01:48

I love it. It happens every Saturday morning.

Garry: 00:01:52

Greasy spoon. Ah, your breakfast shagger. Oh, usual. Oh.

Today at this, at this point in time, my waistline would suggest that I do go to a greasy spoon on a regular basis. Yep.

Mark: 00:02:06

Have you ever seen that? It's a completely diet. We will get back to getting recognized and we will get back to Star Wars.

But have you ever seen the Mike Reed joke about the cafe? Remember Frank Butcher from Eastender?

Garry: 00:02:15

Frank Butcher. Yeah. I've not heard the joke though.

Mark: 00:02:17

Go on, mate. Just go on Instagram. I'm not gonna do it.

Garry: 00:02:20

Rude.

Mark: 00:02:20

Yeah, yeah, it's not rude actually, but I just don't want to do his accent. He's on stage. I'm. I'm do it.

Garry: 00:02:26

Go on.

Mark: 00:02:27

God. Go on. Yeah. And he's like, I wanted to cafe last week.

I said to geese, I said, I mean, any chance for breakfast but on the sausage, I want it to be so Burnt on the outside and so raw on the inside that people think it's still alive. And then when you get to the bacon, can you make sure it's that raw?

And swimming in Greece that I think I could take it out to the sea and it would flout itself and kind of get some beans. But I want the top of the beans to be so warm, they'll burn your top of your mouth off. And inside I want to be ice cold. And a tomato.

I want a tomato that's hardly cooked and you can barely chew it. And the blood behind the counter says, I don't have time to do that, mate, because you found time yesterday.

Garry: 00:03:07

He's essentially described 90 of all breakfasts in the UK.

Mark: 00:03:11

It's absolutely class in it because when I was watching it yesterday, I was like, this is literally the Barnsley market, mate.

Garry: 00:03:18

Oh, dude. It's like, it's the same everywhere. Like, you have to go to a select few to find a decent one, but. Oh, it's funny.

Mark: 00:03:24

Yeah. Or you end up with, like, gastro breakfast, which is like, everything's in a little metal.

Like, your beans come in a shitty metal cup and you're like, I don't want them in a metal cup. Just put them. Just put them. Put them on my plate.

Garry: 00:03:34

Yeah. That was my face, dude. Yeah. When we moved up to this area, local farm shop breakfast, 90 of it was great. Beans come out in the little pot.

I was like, I'm out.

Mark: 00:03:43

Yeah. 40 quid and some cress on the side. No, thanks.

Garry: 00:03:46

Yeah. For 40 quid? Yeah. All I've got is. Yeah. And it was 40 quid for us as well as a family. That's ridiculous.

Mark: 00:03:54

Don't surprise me, mate. Anyway, yeah, we did digress. Mildly. But anyway, you did get recognized, didn't you?

Garry: 00:04:02

I did, yes. Yeah. As part of the old day job, doing some podcast training, workshop stuff. Very nice young man at Sheffield. Unique. So I recognize you.

He heard the voice before he saw the face. So that's always a.

Mark: 00:04:17

You got one of those voices, though, haven't you?

Garry: 00:04:19

Trepidation there. It's like, Christ almighty, you are. I heard the voice and I thought, gotta be a stunner, got to be a looker. But you've disappointed me.

I was like, unsubscribe, mate. It's all good. But no, it wasn't. It was nice. Every so often when that happens, I normally. I normally tee myself up to do it intentionally.

Like, if I want to go. If I'm feeling a bit low, I'm like, ah, I Want some attention? I'll go to a London film Comic Con.

Loads of Doctor who fans there get that sort of a dozen times. That's all good. But just out in the blue like that. Out in the. Out in the wide world. I like it.

Mark: 00:04:55

The actual wild.

Garry: 00:04:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. Spark Rebellion listener.

Mark: 00:05:01

Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. And that's actually two from a similar area. We've got the Rotherham and Sheffield people. That's twice in the last few weeks. Let's. That's happened.

So that's pretty cool. But also, speaking of fans, we need to get a big shout out to Kev Bot, who dropped us a tip, so thank you very much.

Dropped us a bit of beer money, so thank you, Kev. Very, very kind of you.

Garry: 00:05:19

Oh, nice.

Mark: 00:05:20

Very, very kind of you.

Garry: 00:05:20

Cheers, Kev.

Mark: 00:05:21

Yeah, we appreciate that. We'll. We'll get a pint on it. 100. Right. We're gonna get some.

Well, a bit of a deeper discussion on one news story in a second because it probably warrants a little bit of. A little bit of tinkering, but we. We have decided that we're gonna actually change the format of Sparker Rebellion.

So we've been doing it now for five years, believe it or not, six years, which is insane. Six years in May. So we're 200 and odd in the high 200s when it comes to the episode numbers. And it. It's sort of been a.

It's been a weird thing recently. Like we said last week, there's not been that much news. It's all been the same sort of stuff.

aunched. It launched in March: 2020

April: 2020

You know, there was announcements for Mandalorian, there was announcements for things coming up, but, like, recently, the last year or so, it's just been remedial stuff. It's been the same old stuff. So I think we found it pretty. Like, I don't know about you, mate, but I found it. I found it tough.

Like, I found it difficult to remain enthusiastic about Star wars and Disney.

Garry: 00:06:50

Just.

Mark: 00:06:50

Constantly positive about it, you know?

Garry: 00:06:53

Mm. No. 100% agree. And I think we came to this conclusion roughly at the same time as well, which is a good sign because if you.

If you're running sort of a. Any sort of thing with a co host and one of them's like, yeah, this is amazing.

The other one's like, this is shit, then that's difficult conversation. But, yeah, I think we were both like, as a listener, you've probably heard us as well.

I definitely heard it in Mark's voice last week or the week before the first half of the show, it was just. Yeah. And then my voice was like, it as well. At some point when I listened back, I was like, oh, yeah, this is not. It's difficult to.

And it's hard as well when you. Because Mark and I love Star wars, which is why we did it in the first place.

So when you love something like that and you want to share your thoughts and your feelings and.

And all that stuff and build a community like we have with you guys, which is very cool, it must get to a point where even you guys are like, yeah, come on, guys. You know, we need to.

It can't be a fun listening experience if we're just like, yeah, the news is the same thing that we spoke about the last 10 weeks, you know, So I think we are changing it up. Is a good shout. It keeps you guys sort of in the. In the game. If you, like, still got skin in the game with Star Wars.

You still listen to us be a pair of twats for an hour and whatever. It's just that we're a bit more. A bit more engaged when we do record. So, yeah, should be a better episode for it.

Mark: 00:08:14

Yeah, I think so.

And I'll go through the format in a second, like what we're going to be doing, but I think also, like working in podcasts and working podcasts every day we see. We see a thousand different podcasts every single day. And it's one of those.

This is one of those times in a podcast where actually most people would quit. Most people would just be like, do you know what? I'm sort of bored of this.

I'm not going to put any energy into it, because the thing that I'm interested in talking about is actually not. There's not that much going on with it. And when it does come around, it's sort of regurgitation. So it's actually quite a conscientious move.

Some of the stuff that we're doing, because it would be. It would be remiss of us to. We made the mistake of closing a show before when we did two shots to the head. And we both regret that.

Like we desperately regret doing that.

Garry: 00:09:00

Massive regret that.

Mark: 00:09:01

Yeah, to those, every day. Hate those guys. But it's so, it's a conscientious thing, I think. And it means that we can do more quality stuff.

I think what will come after this will be actually a better developed podcast. So what we're going to do, I'll talk you through some of the, some of the sort of headlines of it.

So from next week we're going to talk about one particular thing today. We're going to talk about this new sort of restructuring, this new appointment over at Disney on the Lucasfilm side of things in just a second.

And then next week we're gonna do a normal news episode, wrap up a couple of weeks worth of news and really sort of go into, you know, almost a finale episode of. Okay, look, we'll draw a line under the news and this is it, we're good to go. Then we're gonna be.

The next time you'll hear from us will be probably May the third. May the third. And what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna be recapping Star Wars Celebration.

In particular the TV and the movie news that has come out of Star Wars Celebration because that's running, I think it's April 23rd to 25th or whatever it is. 23rd out in Japan. Obviously we went to a celebration a couple of years ago. It was great.

And there's always a lot of news that comes out, teasers, announcements, you know, returning stars and so on and so forth. So I think there will be a lot come out of that which will be fantastic.

So we'll be doing that episode on May 3rd and I would imagine it'll probably be a decent sized episode. It's not. I don't imagine that being a 45 minute episode. Then what we're going to do, we're moving into seasons.

All right, so we're gonna go mid to late June, we're gonna put probably a four to six episode season out and we're gonna spend a, a deep dive amount of time recapping and or season two, because that will have finished by then. It will be done.

We're gonna get a couple of guests on, we've got a couple of really cool people lined up, authors, a couple of people that have actually worked on the movies. Gives us more time to actually craft these interviews and to do the bookings, do the logistics around it.

And then obviously we talk about we'll talk about what has gone on for the last couple of months in the new sphere and changes that have come after celebration and so on. So I'm really excited for that, dude.

And then we're going to do one, we'll do another season, a similar kind of thing towards the end of the year as well. So I, I think we'll actually probably end up doing two or three seasons a year between four and eight episodes, I would imagine.

I can't see it being very strict insofar as we must do four, we must do eight. I think it will just, it would, it will just sort of, I think it'll design itself out when we get the topics rolling.

So I, I think that will be a better product, albeit not every week. But I do think it will be a far better product because we can spend time on it, you know, as opposed to just collecting news and responding to it.

So I'm, I do feel, well, I feel really positive about that. I think it's a, I think it's a strong move not only for us, but for a lot of podcasts.

I think a lot of people could learn from that as well, to be honest with you.

Garry: 00:11:50

Yes, 100% agreed on that, dude. I think it's the good old, the age old thing, isn't it? It's like quality over quantity, which is needed at this point. And it's not just us.

I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus, of course, but some of the Star wars blogs that are out there and some other Star wars podcasts that I listen to semi regularly. It's all a similar landscape really for Star Wars.

There's literally only so much you can, you can scrape out the old barrel before you start, you know, getting into the, the concrete, which is harder to scrape. So yeah, I think it'd be a good one, a good move for us.

And it also brings a little bit of anticipation as well because like we can do a bit of a build up, we can tease some of the people that gonna have on the show as Mark said, and, and just make a bit more of a thing of it rather than the weekly, you know, same old. So yeah, I'm up for this, man. It's gonna be good.

Mark: 00:12:43

Yeah, likewise, likewise.

And it might mean that we actually kick ourselves in, in to gear and get YouTube up and running and put some trailers out for the upcoming episodes and so on.

There's plenty, I think with more time and resource and not just having to, to plow out an episode every week, you get the chance to say, well, you know what, I'm going to spend a couple of hours on a trailer for the next season, you know, and I think it becomes more of a, more of a production.

I mean there's a reason that many of the top shows do that, you know, unless you're a new show or you're like a boring entrepreneur interview show, you know, I think seasonal works. So yeah, we'll, we'll get on to that. I think it'll be fascinating. So look out for that. We'll, we'll tell you the skinny on that again next week.

Just so it's really clear what's going on. Obviously there's an absolute pile of back episodes if you want to listen to them.

But we really appreciate the support and yeah, we're looking forward to this, this kind of next chapter. I mean after six years it's a change as good as a holiday, that's for sure.

Now Gazla, we mentioned last week about Lucasfilm maybe needing a bit of a restructure, something needing to happen. I think Kathleen Kennedy always gets the battering but obviously she's like, she's the top of the top.

You know, I, I, I would not imagine she's that involved in day to day stuff.

ven last year, was it, was it: 2023

, and then moved up to, yeah,: 2023

But it feels like they needed someone else to oversee what was actually being produced and they changed that person last week, which was a big surprise and very timely. After we talked about it. I'm sure it's completely related to Lucasfilm and Disney.

Listening to the podcast and thinking, do you know what lads, you were right, we should probably do something. So the previous, the previous VP of development at Lucasfilm underneath Disney was Rain Roberts.

Co developed the Acolyte and so on and so forth and actually left last year.

Now I didn't know this, this is probably just my own, like I should have probably known this, but Rain Roberts actually left last year but as part of the backlash from the Acolyte by the sounds of it.

Certainly reading between the lines on some of the reporting, certainly the way that the rappers, I suppose phrase that and taking, taking Rain Roberts place is Derek Hoffman. Derek Hoffman, who is a video game and comic book industry veteran, according to the rap.

Started with the Donner Company, which is pretty good pedigree. Became assistant for actual Richard Donner, which is pretty cool. Associate producer on a few films, you know, not amazing films, but still films.

But in particular, was exact producer on pretty much every X Men film. Now, take from that what you will. So there's some good in there and there's some shite in there. X Men 1. Yes. X Men 2. Yes. X Men 3.

You know, you're safe. You're safe.

Garry: 00:16:00

Yeah.

Mark: 00:16:01

And then, you know, first class. Yes, you're safe. You know, apocalypse, you know, days of future past. Yes, you're safe. Legion, the gifted phoenix.

But so, you know, that's what's gone on. We said earlier change is as good as a holiday. So Rain Roberts has got a holiday and we've got a change now. I don't want to be Mr. Negative, which.

And so I won't be because I do think it needed a change, dude. But I mean, that's varied in it.

Garry: 00:16:44

That is quite varied. Yeah. I guess it's just in stark contrast to Cath, isn't it?

When Kath came on board, she had worked on so many blockbusters and so many big, big films and.

Mark: 00:16:56

And other bits which we all forget as well. I should just throw that in. Like, every troll forgets that.

Garry: 00:17:01

Yeah, we do. Yeah, we all do at some. At some point. So the pedigree there was. Was industry, you know, top of the top shelf stuff.

So I think we forget that sometimes. And. Whereas old. Old Des. Old Derek, although he does bring stuff to the table. I don't know, it'll be.

It's one of those things where you would think that bringing somebody in to develop new programs, they may have got somebody in with more. More things under their belt, perhaps. I'm not sure in terms of. Because you can only dine out for so long on.

On that thing, you know, it's like, yeah, I was. I was the X Men guy.

Mark: 00:17:45

Yeah.

Garry: 00:17:46

For a while. It's like, what else have you got? I'll give you three, another two if you need them. And. But he can't pull those out the locker.

You know, he's just like, well, I've done that. So just be happy that you got X Men. Right. Yeah, just. You should be happy that I brought that to the table.

Mark: 00:18:05

Just put that there.

Garry: 00:18:08

Oh, God, look. Review of the X Men franchise. Pretty. Oh, what's that? Yeah, a couple years old. I know, I know.

Mark: 00:18:16

I Should increase profit without cutting a single job.

Garry: 00:18:18

And yeah, having said that, you've.

Mark: 00:18:22

Charming.

Garry: 00:18:23

Having said that, I guess it comes down to Kath having a chat with him over the usual Starbucks, you know. Yeah. Not to be a negative ninny, there's probably two ways to think about this dude. The first one is very positive and it's very. Yep.

This guy's probably done loads of stuff that we don't know about under the radar. Not just X Men, but, you know, he's known in industries. You know, he obviously knows his bacon. Whatever. All good.

The other way to look at it is that they're desperate. They are absolutely desperate just to make a change. That. That would be.

The cynical side of my brain was like Rain Roberts, who just completely fooked it with the acolyte and making that happen. And then Kath's like that, you've got to go. We can't let. We can't have the acolyte lingering around.

And you were like, you know, you were part of that. So, sorry, you got to go. And they just have to get someone in. So that it's like a bit of a desperate move to.

To just to come across to the world that change is happening, you know, so there's two different ways to look at it, mate. But I don't know.

Mark: 00:19:32

I'm.

Garry: 00:19:32

I guess I'm down the middle. I guess I'm not. It's a positive change. Of course it's good. But, yeah, I don't know. Down the middle.

Mark: 00:19:41

It's a difficult one, isn't it?

So if you look at Rain Roberts from a Star wars perspective, you've got Force Awakens, creative exec, Rogue One, creative exec, Last Jedi, creative exec, Rebels story group, additional prod support, solo creative exact. And then you've got Rise of Skywalker development exec.

Garry: 00:20:02

You know, it's like the tail end of her Lucasfilm career has not been.

Mark: 00:20:08

Yeah, exactly. But then if you look at Derek, it really is. I mean, Superman 2, the Richard Donna cut, which I really enjoyed.

But a lot of it is obviously just all X Many stuff, which is fine. And it's. Yeah, I suppose it is difficult to kind of actually. Do you know what?

wars, because if this was in: 2018

You know, I did Last Stand, and it's Sort of a. Like you've become a bit of a glass half empty for. Almost by accident, like, not realizing it. And it's just.

I was thinking about it last night just how it needs, like Star wars just needs to just steady up a little bit and slow down and do like, do a really good and. Or season. Do a really good Ahsoka season. Like, I'd almost be happy with no announcements. Like, just don't announce anything. Just do.

Do two or three good things and let people remember that stuff. Especially coming off the back of Skeleton Crew, you know, that's. That was a good crack and it proved that you can have a bit of a laugh. Yeah.

And you can produce something decent that's not tied to anything else. And. And it's. It's like it just sort of needs a little bit of that.

And I, you know, if we turn this into maybe a glass half full, at least we're in a position now where, you know, arguably most of the shit's done and what have we got to look forward to? Ahsoka Season 2, well, that's starting production.

We've got the guy that played the Hound coming in, who is great in Game of Thrones, you know, and you've got. You've got talks of Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen coming back. Like you sort of screwed the legacy.

Legacy of the OT characters in the sequel trilogy. Filon is bringing these guys back, you know, another bite of the cherry, potentially. So. All right, that's pretty cool. And.

Or Season two, I think we can all agree, is probably going to be brilliant. So you sort of.

You had, you know, you probably a line in the sand where you could start to rebuild from this point, because all the, all the things coming up, Mandalorian and Grogu, you know, ahead to the Empire, all that sort of stuff. It's all. It feels good stuff. It feels like. It's not like the Acolyte, where it was out on a bit of a limb. It was trying something fresh.

It was, you know, executed not very well, albeit some highlights, but I don't know, man. I suppose what I'm trying to say is it feels like maybe there's a turning point.

Maybe there's a turning point and maybe this with Derek Hoffman is tied to that. Maybe. I don't know.

Garry: 00:23:15

Yeah, potentially. It feels like a turning point, as in something is. Something's happened across the fan base, like, really negative. Like, the Acolyte was.

Was the first time where there was such a massive. A massive part of fandom that just didn't like it. Like, up to that point. If people didn't like the Mandalorian, that's cool.

But there was always a pretty hefty chunk of people that did like it, I think, like the Mandalorian stuff and probably Ahsoka in that as well. And especially some of the animated stuff that Filoni's done. For the most part, I think it's been reasonably positive.

You got, like these small little echo chambers and stuff going on, but for the most part. But the Acolyte really felt like fans had just had enough. Like, even fans that were, you know, pretty like us.

You know, fans that were pretty into most things even. We were just like, man, like. I remember our first review, episode one, review of the Acolyte, episode one.

It was so Gaz, straight out the gate, what your thoughts? I'm like, mate. And you're like, yeah, isn't it. It's proper so for us to say that. And we.

We typically don't go in, you know, as hard as that, even if we don't like something. That's. That was the feeling that you got from it. So it feels like. I don't know if this is coming from Kath directly or if it's coming from above her.

I don't know, but it feels like this was the one that was like, look, you've got to do something, because you kind of hate to say it, but you're slowly eroding all of the trust and all of the good vibes that you've. You've asked people to cling on to. Even if something hasn't been perfect, you've asked people to stick with it and stuff. But now you kind of. Now.

Now you're asking a bit much. You know, you're putting out crap and. And you're asking for stuff. So that's. That's the way I look at it. It's like Rain Roberts has taken. She's put.

She's the one that's taken the fall because Leslie Headlund, she's not a direct employee of Lucasfilm, so there's no problem there. But Rain Roberts co developed that with Leslie Headland, so she has to be the one, you know, to take the. Put the head in the guillotine.

So that's gotta go. So I think. I honestly feel like somebody. I don't know who it is, Kath or Iger, somebody has basically said, look, Kath, you've got to fuck.

You've got to make a change. And yeah, with. With Hoffman, it would Be interesting to see what he brings to the table in term as to why somebody else didn't fill that slot.

Because. Why, why didn't A Filoni fill that spot? Why, why didn't a. What's his face, you know?

Mark: 00:26:11

Yeah. Less of a hands on job though, that one.

Whereas Fallone is like the guy that makes the things, you know, he's such a character and story guy, isn't it, that if you were to, if you were to take him out of would it would potentially harm things because he's, he's the Lucas, isn't he?

Lucas, you know, he was the guy that was making Phantom Menace even though it was difficult and he was the guy that, you know, forced Star wars into, you know, being Star Wars.

And I suppose the second you put someone like that in a corporate environment, you risk taking the edge off and actually getting stuff done from that person. So it's.

Yeah, it's a very difficult thing that you almost need as you need with any corporate, you need like the people that can make the good things, you know, I see, I almost see like this is probably a weird comparison, but I sort of see Filoni and Lucas, you know, as the Steve Jobs type of character that we're doing it my way. You guys are all wrong. And not in a bullish way, not in a dickhead way, but you know, you're all wrong. This is the vision, this is what we're doing.

I know you're saying it can't be done, but you know, I'll see you back here when it's done.

And, and it feels like people like Derek Hoffman and people that are above that level that work at the corporate level and much more about the logistics of it and is it financially viable, is it a good business decision? And then you sort of get two types of that person.

You get the one person that believes the guy that says, or the person that says we are going to get it done regardless of what you think and it's going to be really good. And this is the vision. I'm not moving.

If you want me to move, I'm off, you know, or you get the other person that is potentially more investor led, more rigid and so on and so forth. And it's you sort of, I think in every environment you need someone that protects those people like the Filoni.

And it's, you know, I, I don't see Filoni controlling the purse strings, but if the person controlling the purse strings is someone that believes in the Filoni type character then the result surely is going to be better. So I just. Yeah, maybe it's that. And I just. We just don't know much about Derek Kaufman.

Garry: 00:28:30

Did we know much about Feige before he became the Marvel guy?

Mark: 00:28:35

Well, wasn't he a similar scenario? Wasn't he, like, producer, exec producer on a ton of X Men, but also like the Toby Maguire stuff, maybe even the Garfield stuff?

I'm sure he sort of came up under, like, Aviarad and Stan Lee even to a degree. I'm sure he did.

Garry: 00:28:51

That's what. I mean, if it's.

If somebody like that came into it who didn't have all the stuff going on, like Kath did or whatever, then maybe that's what they're looking for. And it's something you and I have said for years now is like, Star wars needs a Feige.

It needs that one guy or woman that's just, you know, overseeing everything, but has that Steve Jobsy type of, you know, we're doing it this way. And maintains a level of. I guess you'd. I guess what you want is somebody under Cath who's not a yes man, basically.

Mark: 00:29:30

Yeah, yeah. And someone. Yeah, someone that. That will, I think, you know, tuning into what fans genuinely want as well.

And it's because there's a real balance between fan service and telling a story that the fans respect because they've grown up with that thing and the trolls get it wrong most of the time, but often they'll have a modicum of a valid point. And even if that valid point is just, you ruined Luke Skywalker.

Well, we ruined it, you know, with regards to what you saw in Legends and what your version in your head was. And that's one thing to say, well, we. We understand that you saw this differently, but here's our version. And then there's the.

You ruined Luke Skywalker as an example, from the perspective of you went down this path and you never really finished it because you puss it out and, you know, and you were just sort of backtracked a little bit and. And you never. You never really took the opportunity to say Luke Skywalker was.

Had that much presence of mind that he saw all the shit, researched all the shit that went on with Anakin, didn't want that to happen again, so bailed and like, what a rich. What a rich mine of content and stories. And, you know, the sequel trilogy had such a.

A massive potential to bring in all those intricate political and galactic elements that the prequels had alongside the whimsy and the Wonder of the original trilogy and the basic, you know, binary black and white of good versus bad and all that. Stu, the way that Lucas saw it and so he had such an opportunity.

But you get the person at the top or the people at the top saying, that's not going to make money. Or the fans have said this, so we probably need to go so far the other way that they don't remember. And it's.

Where do you put that person that can say, look, you know, it's almost like what's a good example of it? Like, there's been countless sort of.

I think probably like the James Gunn Superman, I think stands a chance of being like this where you're just, you know, there's someone just saying off. Trust me, like, I know that you think this, but I believe in this and I'm into the source material. I trust the character. I know the character.

You've just not yet seen what's in my head, you know, and that's the filoni. So, yeah, a lot to unpack there. But it's. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's such a difficult thing.

And I often makes me wonder, like, should they just come out and say, would you know what? Some of this didn't land. We are just going to take a bit of a break, you know, which I think. I think they've alluded to by cutting the schedule.

But the, you know, I don't think they've come out and said it, have they?

Garry: 00:32:25

No, I don't. They've not said it, obviously. But yeah, when you look at the schedule, you can't not see it.

There's definitely stuff going on behind the scenes, isn't there?

Mark: 00:32:35

Yeah, of course, it's a bit.

Garry: 00:32:37

Do you know what it's like, dude, in my. With did with the DC stuff. And this has given me very, very big flashbacks.

By the way, when we mentioned two shots earlier, I've started re watching the Arrow series and those. I'm about one episode off the finale for series and I remember series two as well, and they were so, so good.

And when they expanded that and they started doing the other ones, the Flash bought the other ones. I think it was Supergirl.

Mark: 00:33:11

Yeah.

Garry: 00:33:12

And a couple of other ones. And then they kind of finished it up with Superman and Lois, which is not technically part of it. It's like arrow verse adjacent, if you like.

Mark: 00:33:22

Yeah, it's another universe, but it's sort of in that universe, isn't it?

Garry: 00:33:26

So when you look at all of that stuff together. And you talk to comic book fans, especially D.C. fans, nobody's talking about Justice League films. No one's talking about any of that stuff.

What they're talking about, a deeper level is the Arrowverse.

And the reason why they're doing that is because the people who created it, the writers and stuff like that, they knew those characters and they knew that stuff inside out. So when you've got the execs who are running the TV stations, they don't know a fucking thing about, you know, the people at the cw.

And that was a thing. They didn't have a clue. They didn't know about the intricacies of green arrows relationships to anything.

But you had those guys that were like, just fucking leave us to it. Like, we know what's going on. You just sign the checks, we'll handle the rest.

And I feel like potentially that's exactly what is needed now at Lucasfilm, because we're looking at this as, like, an isolated thing. It's like there's this one person that's left, and then this other one person's come in to fill the spot.

But we know there's going to be a board of people, there's upper management, all that shit. But I feel like advertising this and saying, you know, this is the. The new guy. It just needs someone like him to say, look, back off, you lot.

Protect these guys who know what they're doing. Filoni's the creative genius, you know, the Lucas second. Whatever. Let them do all that stuff. Here's. Here's the thing.

So I really hope if they follow that blueprint that they've done successfully with the DC stuff on TV and that Feige done for the most part with. With Marvel, this. This is. This could be a good thing. But, yeah, the glass half empty thing you were saying earlier.

Yeah, that's in my head, and I can't get rid of it.

Mark: 00:35:14

And it feels like they're trying to build, or they've been trying to build spectacle versus personal stories. And if you look at, like, Superman a lot is a great example of that. Like, on paper, that should have been crap. Like, not a great budget.

It's on the cw. It's been sunsetted because James Gunn and Saffron have come in to build a new Superman universe on screen.

So they've called it a day, knocked it on Edit Season 4 instead of Season 5. The overall kind of storylines are quite literally based on the early 90s comics, where the world was much less complicated.

From a comic standpoint, you Know, it was before everything got dark in the comics. It wasn't Identity Crisis, where everything. You know, that's probably the tipping point of it getting dark, you know, super dark. And it.

By all accounts, it just shouldn't have been that good. It should have been just bubblegum. And it was brilliant. The entire thing, top to toe, was absolutely brilliant.

And the reason it was that good was the built. They spent time on characters and then built everything around that. And. And it's. I. It's probably top three Superman on screen for me without. In fact.

No, it is top three. It's just where it sits in the top three. It's excellently done.

And when you look at, like, the way that Lucasfilm didn't do that with the sequels and really anything else, like, it's done it a little bit with Mandalorian, but then after Season two, it was like, oh, now it's the Mandalorian universe. And it was good, but it wasn't. It wasn't like it was. And it was. They were trying to do too much too soon.

And it was the same with, like, the reason that Ahsoka worked so well was because of Rebels. Without Rebels, it had been, well, what's got. Who's. Why do we care about this? What's the point in this? And Rebel was.

Worked well because it was a bunch of five things. Five people, six people over the course of five or six seasons that you got to know and you spent a bit of time with.

And, you know, they missed so much opportunity that if they. If they just spend time developing the characters, like everything else follows, you know, and this is what I mean potentially about this.

Maybe this line in the sand, you know, that we've. We've all spent time getting to know Luke and the OT characters and then Anakin and the. The prequel trilogy characters in our own heads.

And now they're back. There is an opportunity to tell those character stories and to go into that and, you know, look at what Charles Soul's doing with comics.

You know, telling the story of Kylo Ren becoming that supreme leader in between Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker, because the film did all with it and the Force Awakens, we were all so excited because it was like, grandfather, I'll finish what you start. And it was like, oh, actually, you know what? That. I'm not gonna bother. So it was. It was completely. It was.

Everything became completely led by other things, not characters. And it just, like. It sounds so basic. Just sounds so basic. But I wonder if it's like the Fear of time.

Like, well, if we do that, it's going to take three films for you to get to know these guys. And that's all right. That's cool. Tell some good stories.

Garry: 00:38:30

I think that works if you're, if you're announcing a fairly big series of films that, that you know are going to be, that you're going to need at that time to develop those characters and stuff.

You know, when things like Avatar was announced and, and Dune, you know, these big new sci fi blockbusters, I'm pretty sure that James Cameron wasn't thinking right. Okay, by the end of film one, you guys are going to know absolutely everything about what's going on in these films.

And in this one film with all these characters, I think they already said like, you know, it's going to be a trilogy or four, six films, whatever it is, and, and that's fine. You can, you can do that.

But with Star wars it, you haven't got time in one trilogy to reset all of that stuff that you've already, you've already fucked. You know, to put a finer point on it. Like if you've, the first film was, okay, the Force Awakens, that was, that wasn't too bad.

Actually, don't mind the Force Awakens, it's all right. When you get to the end of the Last Jedi, you're like, I'm not seeing the stuff that you said we were going to see.

I'm not seeing some of the character development and I'm certainly not seeing. I just don't get what you're doing with Luke. Like, I just don't understand, I don't understand it.

So then you've got one film left to try and, to try and make amends and you can't, you're too far in at that point. You fucked it. So with Star wars you couldn't do that. You couldn't say, oh, which is why maybe that picks up on.

We were saying earlier, you know, with the High Republic in last week's episode, we, so we spoke about the, the wrap up that they're doing with that and that finale story and that's like the best opportunity to do that kind of thing where it's like, you know, here's a, here's a brand new sort of era to get stuck into and we're going to do it across all of these books and whatever and you're going to get to know the characters. That's cool.

But, but with the characters that have been written that way in the sequel trilogy, now it then bleeds into the Disney plus stuff, which then bleeds into these individual stories like the Acolyte. And we're here, we're at this point now where it's like, I don't know, change is needed, you know, and it.

Mark: 00:40:48

Was that cross media strategy was like, that was always stated as a mission for the High Republic right from day one, you know, it was Charles so Claudia Gray, all these amazing people coming together to focus on a single finite cross media era of Star wars, you know, and it large, by and large, it's worked pretty well. I've enjoyed a lot of it. Whereas you, you saw the stories never been really finished with, with any of the style.

You know, if you're gonna do prequels and sequels, like, at least tell the stories and genuinely think about how do we finish a story off. Because a lot of the, you know, if you look at the media, it's like it's time for Star wars to be done with the Skywalker Saga.

And you're like, that's like saying it's time for DC to be done with Batman or Superman. You can be done with them for four years, but you know, people are going to come out and see them and it's. They're a big draw.

They're always a big draw. And everything in the, on the movie side has been reactionary. Oh, we better do this Sith.

I can't remember what it was called, the Sith book that came out where it's Luke and a little Bobby Kylo and. And what's his name, the guy from. Max Von Sydow from Force Awakens. You know, that character. It's before Force Awakens, haha.

But it was released in like: 2021

So it's, you know, I think that's the difference with it. And it just feels like it needs someone to say, right, look, let's just be completely honest. Star wars is the Skywalkers, right?

And let's assume that goes on for another 50 years. What are the next three chapters of this?

And when I say chapter, I mean a chapter might be a trilogy of films, five books, an animated series and some comics. Like, what is that overall picture? And like Lucas said, my canon is the prequels, the original trilogy and the Clone Wars TV show. That's it.

And there's no reason I don't understand why they can't just do the same thing. We're just gonna go, this next chapter, the main story, and everyone should get what is needed to be gotten from the movies, like the story.

My mum should be able to watch those movies and go, oh, that's a pretty cool story. And then everything else is.

Is separate stories that are tied in or supplementary material or a mix of both like that, like they do with the prequels and stuff. But it just.

I just fail to see how a company of that size with so much resource cannot just get in a room with a pen and paper and go, well, it's just, why don't do this? Like the High Republic project. Single, finite, defined.

And we are going to tell the story of Luke and we are going to tell the story of Anakin, and we are going to tell the story of Rare and Finn and all these things, you know, so it just feels weird and it's. I. I sort of blame Marvel a little bit as well. Like, they've ruined it for everyone, haven't they?

They sort of ruined it by building these universes and expectations of, you know, expectations of. Of every film hitting like 900 million and having to follow a similar format. So it's a difficult landscape to be in, but maybe get on top of it.

Garry: 00:44:13

Yeah, they've ruined a few things. Marvel. The last time me and the missus went to the cinema, we went to see Beetlejuice. I think the second one, which is terrible, by the way. Films.

Films ended. Credits are rolling. We're just sat there like a pair of lemons. We're like, what we sat here for. This is Marvel in it. We're waiting for a.

We're waiting for end of credit, cut scene. That's not coming. But because Marvel have done it with all of their films and we've seen them all, we sat there like, this is not coming, is it? Just.

Just do one. I don't know if there was one or not, but it's things like that that have got you into this, this kind of mindset with all this stuff.

So maybe, maybe that's part of it.

Maybe, maybe they were thinking, like, you know, we can't just tell this nice little, you know, era of storytelling because we're going to shoot ourselves in the foot and it's not connected by this other thing and we can't build this big universe off of it, and we can't do this. So maybe they're thinking too big all the time.

You know, maybe they're thinking, we need to follow Marvel suit because that equals X amount of dollars in terms of B's. Billions, you know, But I don't know. Yeah, we'll wrap up. But all I'll say is it all boils down to characters on this.

Because the best example is if you look at the Empire Strikes Back, nobody needed to sit there that long and listen to a conversation between Yoda and Luke when he's training. But it's some of the best fucking Star wars that you'll see.

And all that was was just little bit of exposition, a bit of character progression, but you knew exactly what Luke was going through and what he was thinking and all of that stuff. And by the end, when he buggers off to Bespin because he gets that little sort of foresight within the Force, you're like, shit, what would I do?

Yeah, you'd probably do it in the sequel. Trilogy. I don't get that. I don't. And it's most of the Disney plus stuff. I just don't get that. I just get the popcorny. Yep. Pew, pew, pew.

This is what's going on. I don't. I don't feel that stuff. So hopefully old Des can. Yeah.

Can bring it back around and start telling some decent stories where people actually like, yeah. Fucking love that character and talk about it, you know?

Mark: 00:46:30

So, yeah, we shall see. We shall see. But, yeah, lots. Lots to think about. We'll see what comes out of Celebration as well. I know there'll be.

There will be announcements, there's going to be teasers, going to be trailers. There's going to be. I mean, the irony is that not really that much has happened with any of the movies that was announced at Celebration 23.

That's the. That. And. And here we are, you know, and so it's. It's a. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's an awkward thing, but, yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult.

You want, like, depending on what happens with Superman, Right. I know it will never happen because of where he works, but just give James Gunn a Star wars film.

Like, if anyone's going to do ott original Star War, be someone like James Gunn. You know what I mean?

Garry: 00:47:19

Yeah, yeah. As in. As in a trilogy of films.

Mark: 00:47:24

Yeah, Just give him. Give him. Because he feels like he can tell a story. Like, Guardians were all great. There was not a bad Guardians film.

He clearly knows how to direct and he clearly knows how to write, so it just. And he gets characters, you know, that's.

I just feel like we need a little bit of that, you know, less of the spectacle, more of, you know, the spectacle in Star wars should be the, the background, the believable background. It shouldn't be up front and center. It should always be the kid that wants to get off a planet because he's bored of.

And the princess that wants to find an old friend to, to help, you know, to help help her people. And you've got a, A big guy with a great red sword that's after him. You know, like that's. It's basic. You know, it's tried and tested and it works.

I do also feel like the mythology side of it and even though I love all that the law side of things, it can wear heavy. It can wear heavy. You know, there's is. Is a better Luke Skywalker story in the Last Jedi or after the Last Jedi. Just right.

There's this other big bad guy called Kylo Ren. Turns out he's Luke's nephew, as it happens. Right. He's super powerful because guess what? That's right. Is related to them all.

Who could probably sort that out. That's right. Like just make a film about that. I don't know how you get that wrong. I just don't know how you get that wrong.

And everything else is the backdrop. So maybe, maybe. Anyway, we will wrap up because we'll talk about this forever.

But I think this goes to show, dude, that, you know, one deep dive on a topic or, or something is probably a more entertaining episode as well. You know, we've not recapped any news here. Validation. Thank you.

All right, we will stick a pin in it for our penultimate episode of this, I suppose this chapter, A Sparker Rebellion.

Garry: 00:49:16

Yeah, it's gonna.

Mark: 00:49:17

Thank you very much.

Garry: 00:49:18

Sorry, I was gonna say it's not like. No, you season. Do you just guys us up? Yeah. So season one is like five years long.

Mark: 00:49:27

Yeah.

Garry: 00:49:27

Yeah. Well, she got what's coming in season two.

Mark: 00:49:30

Well, a TV show. Like we're the opposite of Benny Dom, right. Started out as like four, five, six episodes, 20 minutes each, then became like 32 episodes of two hours.

And you're like, no, I don't want to see it anymore. We're the opposite of that. We're the opposite of that.

Garry: 00:49:46

Sorry, dude. Take us home then for two.

Mark: 00:49:48

o, I love it. We're like a CW: 2008

It's always a pleasure. Thank you to Kevin, to everyone that supports us, Pascal, Denise, Tom, everyone that supports us.

Danny, if you want to get involved involved in that, you can spark a rebellion.com support. Next week we'll be back with our, our final news roundup, certainly our final weekly news roundup before we start on with our new format.

And we will keep you post on that. We will drop some trailers, we will put some good stuff out there for you so that you know that we are still around. So it's been a real pleasure.

Enjoyed that one. Really enjoyed chatting about that. And Gazla, I'll see your bad self next week.

Garry: 00:50:44

Indeed. Yes. That was a good deep dive that and a good, good chat. And we know that Kath listens, of course. She's in the car at the moment.

She's got spark rebellion on the, on the, on the podcast player. We know she listens. So you're welcome. We told you to do this, didn't we? We said you need to make a change. You're doing that. Good steps.

But just hit us up if you need some more, some more advice. It's all good. Never a problem. Next week, as Mark said last episode for a bit. Plenty of news to get through.

So we'll get all that stuff done and then, and then we'll come back with some very cool stuff later on in the year. So until next week then, take care of yourselves and may the force be with you always.